"You don't?"

"No, I don't."

"What did the jellyfish mean when it said 'But finally jellyfish appeared'?"

"It meant . . . that is what it was all leading up to. This is what the whole ten or fifteen billion years of creation were leading up to: jellyfish."

"I agree. And why doesn't your your account of creation end with the appearance of jellyfish?" account of creation end with the appearance of jellyfish?"

I suppose I tittered. "Because there was more to come beyond jellyfish."

"That's right. Creation didn't end with jellyfish. Still to come were the vertebrates and the amphibians and the reptiles and the mammals, and of course, finally, man."

"Right."

"And so your account of creation ends, 'And finally man appeared.' "

"Yes."

"Meaning what?"

"Meaning that there was no more to come. Meaning that creation had come to an end."

"This is what it was all leading up to."

"Yes."

"Of course. Everyone in your culture knows this. The pinnacle was reached in man. Man is the climax of the whole cosmic drama of creation."

"Yes."

"When man finally appeared, creation came to an end, because its objective had been reached. There was nothing left to create."

"That seems to be the unspoken assumption."

"It's certainly not always unspoken. The religions of your culture aren't reticent about it. Man is the end product of creation. Man is the creature for whom all the rest was made: this world, this solar system, this galaxy, the universe itself."

"True."

"Everyone in your culture knows that the world wasn't created for jellyfish or salmon or iguanas or gorillas. It was created for man."

"That's right."

Ishmael fixed me with a sardonic eye. "And this is not mythology?"

"Well . . . the facts are facts."

"Certainly. Facts are facts, even when they're embodied in mythology. But what about the rest? Did the entire cosmic process of creation come to an end three million years ago, right here on this little planet, with the appearance of man?"

"No."

"Did even the planetary process of creation come to an end three million years ago with the appearance of man? Did evolution come to a screeching halt just because man had arrived?"

"No, of course not."

"Then why did you tell it that way?"

"I guess I told it that way, because that's the way it's told."

"That's the way it's told among the Takers. It's certainly not the only way it can be told."

"Okay, I see that now. How would you tell it?"

He nodded toward the world outside his window. "Do you see the slightest evidence anywhere in the universe that creation came to an end with the birth of man? Do you see the slightest evidence anywhere out there that man was the climax toward which creation had been straining from the beginning?"

"No. I can't even imagine what such evidence would look like."

"That should be obvious. If the astrophysicists could report that the fundamental creative processes of the universe came to a halt five billion years ago, when our solar system made its appearance, that would offer at least some support for these notions."

"Yes, I see what you mean."

"Or if the biologists and paleontologists could report that speciation came to a halt three million years ago, this too would be suggestive."

"Yes."

"But you know that neither of these things happened in fact. Very far from it. The universe went on as before, the planet went on as before. Man's appearance caused no more stir than the appearance of jellyfish."

"Very true."

Ishmael gestured toward the tape recorder. "So what are we to make of that story you told?"

I bared my teeth in a rueful grin. "It's a myth. Incredibly enough, it's a myth."

5.

"I told you yesterday that the story the people of your culture are enacting is about the meaning of the world, about divine intentions in the world, and about human destiny."

"Yes."

"And according to this first part of the story, what is the meaning of the world?"

I thought about that for a moment. "I don't quite see how it explains the meaning of the world."

"Along about the middle of your story, the focus of attention shifted from the universe at large to this one planet. Why?"

"Because this one planet was destined to be the birthplace of man."

"Of course. As you tell it, the birth of man was a central event-indeed the the central event-in the history of the cosmos itself. From the birth of man on, the rest of the universe ceases to be of interest, ceases to participate in the unfolding drama. For this, the earth alone is sufficient; it is the birthplace and home of man, and that's its meaning. The Takers regard the world as a sort of human lifesupport system, as a machine designed to produce and sustain human life." central event-in the history of the cosmos itself. From the birth of man on, the rest of the universe ceases to be of interest, ceases to participate in the unfolding drama. For this, the earth alone is sufficient; it is the birthplace and home of man, and that's its meaning. The Takers regard the world as a sort of human lifesupport system, as a machine designed to produce and sustain human life."

"Yes, that's so."

"In your telling of the story, you naturally left out any mention of the gods, because you didn't want it to be tainted with mythology. Since its mythological character is now established, you no longer have to worry about that. Supposing there is a divine agency behind creation, what can you tell me about the gods' intentions?"

"Well, basically, what they had in mind when they started out was man. They made the universe so that our galaxy could be in it. They made the galaxy so that our solar system could be in it. They made our solar system so that our planet could be in it. And they made our planet so that we could be in it. The whole thing was made so that man would have a hunk of dirt to stand on."

"And this is generally how it's understood in your culture-at least by those who assume that the universe is an expression of divine intentions."

"Yes."

"Obviously, since the entire universe was made so that man could be made, man must be a creature of enormous importance to the gods. But this part of the story gives no hint of their intentions toward him. They must have some special destiny in mind for him, but that's not revealed here."

"True."

6.

"Every story is based on a premise, is the working out working out of a premise. As a writer, I'm sure you know that." of a premise. As a writer, I'm sure you know that."

"Yes."

"You'll recognize this one: Two children of warring families fall in love Two children of warring families fall in love."

"Right. Romeo and Juliet Romeo and Juliet."

"The story being enacted in the world by the Takers also has a premise, which is embodied in the part of the story you told me today. See if you can figure out what it is."

I closed my eyes and pretended I was working hard, when in fact I knew I didn't stand a chance. "I'm afraid I don't see it."

"The story the Leavers have enacted in the world has an entirely different premise, and it would be impossible for you to discover it at this point. But you should be able to discover the premise of your own story. It's a very simple notion and the most powerful in all of human history. Not necessarily the most beneficial but certainly the most powerful. Your entire history, with all its marvels and catastrophes, is a working out of this premise."

"Truthfully, I can't even imagine what you're getting at."

"Think. . . . Look, the world wasn't made for jellyfish, was it?"

"No."

"It wasn't made for frogs or lizards or rabbits."

"No."

"Of course not. The world was made for man."

"That's right."

"Everyone in your culture knows that, don't they? Even atheists who swear there is no god know that the world was made for man."

"Yes, I'd say so."

"All right. That's the premise of your story: The world was made for man The world was made for man."

"I can't quite grasp it. I mean, I can't quite see why it's a premise."

"The people of your culture made made it a premise- it a premise-took it as a premise. They said: it as a premise. They said: What if What if the world was made for the world was made for us us?"

"Okay. Keep going."

"Think of the consequences of taking that as your premise: If the world was made for you, then what then what?"

"Okay, I see what you mean. I think. If the world was made for us, then it belongs belongs to us and we can do what we damn well please with it." to us and we can do what we damn well please with it."

"Exactly. That's what's been happening here for the past ten thousand years: You've been doing what you damn well please with the world. And of course you mean to go right on doing what you damn well please with it, because the whole damn thing belongs to you belongs to you."

"Yes," I said, and thought for a second. "Actually, that's pretty amazing. I mean, you hear this fifty times a day. People talk about our our environment, environment, our our seas, seas, our our solar system. I've even heard people talk about solar system. I've even heard people talk about our wildlife our wildlife."

"And just yesterday you assured me with complete confidence that there was nothing in your culture remotely resembling mythology."

"True. I did." Ishmael continued to stare at me morosely. "I was wrong," I told him. "What more do you want?"

"Astonishment," he said.

I nodded. "I'm astonished, all right. I just don't let it show."

"I should have gotten you when you were seventeen."

I shrugged, meaning that I wished he had.

7.

"Yesterday I told you that your story provides you with an explanation of how things came to be this way how things came to be this way."

"Right."